Who's planning on T-Hill April 24-25. This will be a great way to start the season.
Kevin
:Iagree
Not only a great way to start the riding season, getting track experience under your belt, but also for the time of year. T-hill at this time of year is ideal. Not too cold and not too hot. You can ride all sessions without heat stroke. And the early season trackdays don't seem to attract as many riders as the summer ones do, i.e. you'll have more track space to yourself.
Good call KKM. Highly recommended.
Its on my calendar so planning to be there, class C. Looking forward to it after doing T3 last year. I am upgrading my suspension on the VFR so the parts should be here and installed by then.
I'll be there!
Quote from: RichVee4 on March 07, 2015, 06:03:40 PM
Its on my calendar so planning to be there, class C. Looking forward to it after doing T3 last year. I am upgrading my suspension on the VFR so the parts should be here and installed by then.
Hi Rich, I'm thinking of doing my first track day this spring/summer. I want to do Thunderhill but not sure if want the tighter West 2 miler or the East more sweepers 3 miler. I was thinking maybe trying the T3 on May 25th where ride the whole 5 miler track? Or do you think I should just go ahead and do a full Class C as my first track day. Precision seems to do the 2 miler and Zoom Zoom the 3 miler. I here good things about both of them.
More about me. I'm 44 about 10 years and 25K miles riding experience but not edge of my seat rider. I have a 2006 Ducati Supersport that makes maybe 80 hp which is fair representation of me as a rider :)
Any advice is appreciated.
I wouldn't worry to much about what section of track for your first outing. The learning curve is steep at the beginning so a shorter length has some advantages in only having to learn a small section of the track, in my opinion. The 5 mile is a long track to learn. I'm actually looking forward to the small track so I will be able to focus on technique in a couple corners at a time.
I thought the T3 was beneficial and a good way to get acclimated to the track routine. An option you have is to start with the T3 and later in the day jump to class C, at least that is what someone did in our class. Likely have to pay some additional $, don't know the specifics. That would be the best of both worlds for the first outing. I was with my wife and son so was temped to jump into a C class session in the afternoon but wanted to stay with the group.
The T3 is fairly basic, class discussion and some parking lot drills but I learned a lot of useful information. C Class does include some class time and training so certainly an option. There are many riders on this forum that started in C class so could answer your questions as well.
Hope to see you down there.
Years ago there wasn't the T3 option and if you didn't have the required gear and your bike wasn't ready for the track (leaking oil, worn tires, out of maintenance, etc..., for example), T3 would be a way to satisfy and learn that much more. So the old way was to buy the gear and get the bike streetworthy so it's not a hazard to others and just go for it.
All trackdays begin with a mandatory riders meeting, explaining the rules in an open two-way Q&A format. There are no stupid questions, so having never been on a track where people can go as fast as their machines and their fears let them, is a good format for safety reasons. Better to get everybody on the same mindset beforehand, understanding what you can and cannot or more specifically should not do around other riders on the track. And I believe C group is required to stay after the general morning riders meeting for additional discussion and instructions, IIRC.
For someone who has been riding for 10 years, I'd be leaning you towards going for the standard trackday in C group, get the gear, the bike prepped, ask questions here and wherever you have the opportunity about trackday riding, then leave the remaining questions for the big day. Whomever is putting on the event will have instructors who can ride with you and show you around the track. In that format, you get to ask questions and get feedback after several laps on the track itself. C group track riding feels fairly safe, because that group isn't about fast lap times and riding fast with your buddies, it's about getting acclimated with your bike in an environment that's safer than the street...and there's no low ceiling 55 MPH speed limit.
Read up on C group rules and stick to them no matter what. You'll go in with a little bit of nervousness, but come away with a greater deal of satisfaction. More importantly, you'll come out with better riding skills than you started the day with. :2cents
Quote from: RichVee4 on March 13, 2015, 07:16:58 AM
...
I thought the T3 was beneficial and a good way to get acclimated to the track routine. An option you have is to start with the T3 and later in the day jump to class C, at least that is what someone did in our class. Likely have to pay some additional $, don't know the specifics. That would be the best of both worlds for the first outing. I was with my wife and son so was temped to jump into a C class session in the afternoon but wanted to stay with the group. ...
You're a better man than I, without a doubt.
Thanks guys for feedback! I'm leaning towards doing the C group first time out. I have a suit for five years, my bike has a fresh tune with 1k miles on the tires so should be ok there. Although I have a lot of miles I'm not a knee dragger by any means. I still get scared going down steep downhills like the back side of Kingsbury to Gardnerville on my Duc maybe its because the riding position is so far forward. I've been dirt bike riding last 2 years as well and recently went to the MX Fernley track twice now and the difference it made to my skills was huge vs. just trail riding. I imagine going to do road track day will be huge to my skillset which is why want to do it rather than get best lap time etc.
I'm leaning towards the 2 miler vs. the 3 miler as will have more hairpin type turns to work on skills? However the only weekend I see is in July where probably 100 degrees with Precision. Zoom Zoom has one in June but the 3 miler East. I could possibly do June 19th with Precision. There is the 5 miler on May 29th but I think that is too much as a first track day. Maybe as the T3 but not first day out.
Any feedback of 3 miler vs 2 miler and Zoom Zoom vs. Precision? I imagine they both limit # of riders and the instructor to student ratio for the C group is quite good at both?
I have a feeling going to get into it and will upgrade from a Duc SS 80 hp to an 848 ;D
Andy
You are over thinking it. Come on out and ride with us at Precision on either track. I guarantee you'll have a great time and learn a lot about riding your motorcycle.
Thanks Dub, Yes probably doesn't matter which Thunderhill. Looked at Youtube videos looks like an awesome track both 3 and 2 miler. I'm leaning towards the Precision June 19th as my first day out.
Andy
More newbie questions coming...
QuoteBike Prep
Tires and brakes should be in new or nearly new condition. Tire vendor services at the track is not guaranteed. Please email us or plan ahead. Always check your bike over for safety. Disconnect or remove the fuses for the lights. Check to be sure the bike operates normally after this step.
Tape over all lenses and mirrors. Blue 'painters tape' works best, and doesn't leave residue. No light should be visible, or 'bleed through.' Tape over the speedometer, as well. The reason for taping is to eliminate the distractions to you and your fellow riders. By reducing distractions, we're able to focus on what is important!
The bike does not need to be safety wired, but wiring the oil drain and fill caps is highly recommended, and easy to do.
Taping wheel weights is required. Duct tape works well.
Draining antifreeze and replacing it with pure water or water wetter additive is recommended but is not required. We allow engine ice or glycol based coolants.
Tech Inspection:
Helmets and all riding gear must be presented at tech inspection. Precision staff will perform an overall visual and tactile assessment checking for issues such as leaks, loose fittings, or other safety concerns. Your bike and gear MUST pass tech inspection each day before getting on the track. No refunds will be issued for bikes failing inspection or for inappropriate riding gear.
Tech Inspection includes safety items such as:
Crisp throttle return mechanism
Hand controls intact, with properly tightened levers and grips in good condition.
Foot controls properly attached and nothing loose or with excessive play, with no missing bolts.
Chain properly adjusted – generally 1 inch of slack above the swing arm but check your owner's manual for manufacturer recommended tension and adjust prior to event.
Tires in new or nearly new condition
Wheel weights securely taped. (duct tape or similar)
Do you guys recommend draining your anti-freeze and is it hard? I'm looking at maybe getting out there on April 25th for C-group. I have stock tires on my Ninja 300 (4500 miles), should I order new tires and have them ready or buy/install at the track? I don't have a truck or trailer so I'm most likely riding from Reno to Willows, which is why I asked about the anti-freeze. Also, I don't know how to safety wire oil drains or fill caps... and I'm assuming I don't have wheel weights so I don't have to duct tape anything?
It's really not as hard as it may seem.
No need to replace your antifreeze.
Your stock tires are just fine, but they really should be in good condition with plenty of tread. So if they are looking low anyway, may as well go ahead and replace them. Our tire vendor is SPL in Reno. If you decide to replace them, I would just have him do it ahead of time so you don't have to worry about it at the track.
No need to safety wire anything. Just double check your drain plug is tight.
You probably have wheel weights, it's rare for the wheel/tires to be perfectly balanced without any weight. All you have to do is put a piece of duct tape over the weights; no big deal.
Honestly, all you have to do is give your bike a thorough TCLOCK inspection, disable the lights either with tape, pulling the fuses, or unplugging them, put a piece of tape over the wheel weights, and that's really it.
As for your transportation, I highly recommend you don't ride to the track from Reno. While it has been done by others before you, the potential for disaster is high. If you have a mechanical failure, or a crash, at the track you will be stranded. Also, you will most likely be really, really tired after your trackday, riding all the way home to Reno from Willows is gonna be rough. Lastly, you can't really carry much on your bike; you will want to bring lots of water, some snacks, and a chair to sit down in would be nice. A uhaul bike trailer can be rented for cheap and pulled with most any vehicle.
Good for you FC! I hope you're able to make the trip over there.
sweet, thanks for the awesome response :)
FC if you decide to go down but don't want to ride I have an extra spot in my trailer so could haul your bike. You could then either ride down with us or drive yourself. Would enjoy having you along so no worries if you come with us.
Oh and the mirrors; tape over the mirrors or remove them.
Quote from: RichVee4 on March 27, 2015, 07:00:02 AM
FC if you decide to go down but don't want to ride I have an extra spot in my trailer so could haul your bike. You could then either ride down with us or drive yourself. Would enjoy having you along so no worries if you come with us.
There ya go, a much better option than riding the bike down.
Can you ask for better weather? 73/74 for the high, 50* for the low, 70% humidity in the morning to help keep it feeling warm and 35% humidity in the afternoon. No wind at all either.
We'll be needing pictures and video!
All signed up for the two days. Anybody else from SSA going ? This is my best guess for the weather from the last two years history. 82* days & 53* nights.
Kevin
Cool Kevin, see ya there. Are you bringing the big trailer?
Wiles,
No trailer, its moteling this time. Two days of fun & games.
Kevin
Baymont?
The Baymont it is. I did ask them if they will have any water for showers. They said there is some left but not much.
Kevin
I will be there, going to get my tires mounted sometime early next week. Really grateful for Rich helping trailer my bike.
Picture of how excited and ready I am! :)
(http://3rdglancemedia.com/ssa/track-time.jpg)
edit: I got Pirelli Diablo Rosso II's from Revzilla, they were about $60 cheaper than SPL Reno but since I didn't buy from them, mounting with tires on my bike is going to be $40/each (still a really good deal) compared to $25/each. Dealer wanted $165 just to mount and balance, >:(
You ride dirt? Noticed a dirt helmet there. I use Moto Source on Mill St in town for mounting. Tell them your SSA and will get a discount. Last time I paid $26 to mount at tire with wheel off bike. Lately I have had them order the tire and get free mounting.
Would be good to get some miles on those before we head down.
I will be leaving Fri around 4 pm to head to Willows. Not sure if I will eat in Willows yet since I wont get down there until 8 or so.
What, no GoPro for either of you? :flagSSA
Quote from: flamecrow on April 16, 2015, 10:08:59 PMedit: I got Pirelli Diablo Rosso II's from Revzilla, they were about $60 cheaper than SPL Reno but since I didn't buy from them, mounting with tires on my bike is going to be $40/each (still a really good deal) compared to $25/each. Dealer wanted $165 just to mount and balance, >:(
Tires are a pain in the butt. They are so much cheaper online, but then the shops charge you more to mount them and you don't end up saving that much. Lately, I have started to just buy them from the shops. It supports the local business plus you get the goodwill that comes with buying the tires and having them mounted at the same place. I really dislike the dirty looks you get when you bring in an internet purchase in to a shop to be installed. Back when I worked as a mechanic in a bicycle shop, we would be downright rude to people who bought parts online then came to us for the installation.
Tires are pretty much the only regular service I can't do myself. I have been thinking of investing in a tire machine. Sure would be nice to buy the cheap tires online and mount/balance them in my garage.
Quote from: RichVee4 on April 17, 2015, 06:41:20 AM
You ride dirt? Noticed a dirt helmet there. I use Moto Source on Mill St in town for mounting. Tell them your SSA and will get a discount. Last time I paid $26 to mount at tire with wheel off bike. Lately I have had them order the tire and get free mounting.
Does MotoSource do free mounting if you buy the tire there? I thought I had called them to ask and they told me they still charged to mount?
Quote from: RichVee4 on April 17, 2015, 06:41:20 AMWould be good to get some miles on those before we head down.
Why? Nothing wrong with riding fresh tires on the track. I will put on a fresh tire to go race with the sticker still on it.
Quote from: RichVee4 on April 17, 2015, 06:41:20 AMI will be leaving Fri around 4 pm to head to Willows. Not sure if I will eat in Willows yet since I wont get down there until 8 or so.
Come to Casa Ramos. There is a Precision family & friends meet and greet on Friday night. https://www.facebook.com/PrecisionTrackdays/posts/1006772372681435
Jerry at MotoSource can get almost any tire next day or maybe two and mounting is included with purchase. I agree, the price is not much more to buy local and it supports local businesses.
Now I want to leave earlier on Friday so I can have dinner at Casa Ramos. Thanks for the heads up. When is everyone planning to get down there?
Ask the local shops to match the internet prices on tires. I did that at BVH, they usually can't match the prices but they come close enough which helps bring them down to a more reasonable price. If I remember right the last set I bought there was about a $60 difference per tire and they were able to bring it down to only a $15 difference per tire so I purchased them from them. Then you can enjoy cheap or free mounting and still support the local shops.
Quote from: RichVee4 on April 17, 2015, 07:09:32 PMNow I want to leave earlier on Friday so I can have dinner at Casa Ramos. Thanks for the heads up. When is everyone planning to get down there?
I don't think there is an official start time. People will start heading over there from the track at about 6-7 I would imagine. I'm sure you will still catch everyone if you get there 7-8.
Good discussion of T 3 at T Hill to be aware of, off camber right turn . Also points out importance of warming up tires.
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188160
If anyone has any other good advice for us new b's would love to hear it.
A. Don't overthink it. You're a good rider. Have fun. Don't crash. And don't injure yourself.
If you're in tune with your bike's tires (grip), go out at a moderate safe pace and build additional speed after reeling off lap after lap. Ride to have fun, whatever that means to you within the rules. If you're finding riders are doing things you don't feel comfortable with, let them through and get away from them. You're allowed to pull into the pits and go back out without question.
I've mentioned this before. As far as safety goes, save your energy for the afternoon sessions. It seems that a lot of riders go to trackdays to impress and race other people. They'll wither or end up leaving early after they accomplish the inevitable accident. Those riders seem to go out in the first session or two with little control and much disregard for what was just explained in the riders meeting a few minutes prior. You might be okay in C group. B group was frightening. I had to factor in my lines and speed to adjust for other riders stuffing me in turns, forcing me off my line, and going around me on the exits. For the most part I ended up changing my riding to be overly cautious and almost wished I hadn't gone out at all in the first two sessions. Had I been on my line and at my pace early on, on an unfamiliar track, I would have been forced off and probably had a big spill.
Crashing sucks. What I found was that if I could find some separation from other riders I could finally have fun and pick the pace up. And as the day wore on, fewer and fewer riders went out, leaving just the "fun" riders like me on track, so those were the best sessions in my book.
Appreciate the input. I can see how the first few sessions can be a little white knuckle with everyone gung ho wanting to show their stuff. If I remember correctly the first C session there is no passing so wont have to deal with that as much.
I like the suggestion to pace yourself and wait for the afternoon sessions when the pack thins out and you are more familiar with the track.
This is going to be fun!
FYI: If you want good pictures of you on track, you'll need to do that great looking riding in the first sessions. The reason is they have to regroup all of their photographs by the end of the day, so they have to end the picture taking early on. So at the end of the day when you're at your most confident and riding the 'coolest' you think you can, nobody is there to capture those moments. What you get instead is a collection of unflattering early morning pictures of you on your bike warming your tires, strolling around the track. :(
Another tip you can take advantage of, depending on your comparative track pace to those who show up, is that if you're too fast for C group, is to move up to B group after lunch or later in the day. Ask an instructor about that. If you're a fast C, go out at the front of each session, lining up early. If you're a slow B, go out at the back of the B riders heading out. Either way, you'll end up with more track in front of you where you will have far fewer goofballs to content with.
Here's a recommended race line video in case you haven't already overloaded on peoples' track videos yet. Just realize you're not on a track prepared R6 and you may not be able to do this sort of pace. :D
(http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr140/tehDUB/Race%20Reports/20140720-IMG_2252_zps79946aa0.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0d0415yX4g)
Had an awesome first time at the track with Rich and Monica. Great seeing and meeting Dub too.
Pics and videos to come... Also I just now realized KKM (Kevin), whom Rich and I were keeping an eye out and hoping to meet at the track was the same man the passed away from the Geiger accident. :-[ Ride in Paradise KKM
Made it back to town, long weekend. Track day went well and learned a lot. Monica and Tim did great and I appreciated dub giving me some one on one coaching. I know I was worn out Sat evening!
Pics to come.
Was surprised how fast the day went. With 20 min class time between sessions we hardly had a chance to sit all morning. Weather was perfect, cool and no rain in sight all day. Rained heavy the night before. Pollen counts were off the charts.
My mind was prepped for the old track which I now know is the 3 mile track. The 2 mile track is the West side and much tighter and less familiar. The first few sessions bikes would back up behind slower riders and be difficult to pass. Once out in front the pace was quick but not being familiar the race lines were sloppy. Toward the second half of the day the pace was much faster and less riders so could get some fast laps without traffic.
I actually enjoyed the 2 mile track, its not a long fast track but more technical with a good mix of rt/lt corners. Perfect track for the ninja 300's. They had a Kawai demo trailer there so would see 3-4 300's on the track and it was fun watching them lean though the corners, impressive corner speed.
Monica did very well. Thought I would catch up to her easier during the session so I could follow and watch her but wasn't easy to find her. I was able to coordinate when we left the pits so followed her around a couple times and she had good lean angle and fast pace. Tim, looked good out there and was learning a lot. The track has 3 tight corners that seemed to give Tim the most challenge, really hard to maintain speed thru the corner.
Worked hard at lean angle and body position. Will honestly say I was not as relaxed as I thought I would be, found myself with locked elbows and death grip on the bars, decreased some during the day. At pace things happen FAST on the short track so you need 100% focus the entire 20min. I can remember the two times I lost focus for like 1 sec and got way off my line. I was getting good grip with my T30's and confidence was building, kept trying to get the knee out. Seemed like it wasn't possible until the last session and did some riding with dub. Toward the end of the session, did a fast RT off camber and dragged my foot peg hard then did a fast sweeping LT and finally the knee Touched down! One small step but a milestone none the less. It took 110% trust in your tires get to that point.
Sat night had at a 24oz beer at casa ramos and early to bed. Thankful everyone had a fun and safe outing.
Big smiles
So glad you guys and gal had a good time. Great pics, BTW. I look forward to more of the stories as they come to mind.
The first time a puck touches down is the milestone and the track is an ideal place to attempt it. The high bars probably don't help in making it feel natural and the first time might feel awkward, like you have to give it your all just to get even close. But it's a confidence builder, in that touching down doesn't carry with it the same fears you might have had going into it. And with that out of the way and your trackday under your belt, hopefully your body will be doing a lot more work to help the bike manage turns comfortably. If you work at it, there may come a time when you break the paradigm about having to put so much effort into it, where you're going in at 95%, then 90%, working your way away, farther and farther from even 80% riding and you're still skipping the puck on the ground.
Did you take pics of the rubber on your T30s?
Here are my pics. I have to also say that I was surprised how stiff my arms were and how much I was grabbing onto the bars! I was pretty sore at the end of the day. I agree with Rich, the full 20 minutes requires 100% focus. Whenever I dozed off or got lazy, I ran wide. I did kill a few cones (about 3 cones total) during the day as I stood the bike up and slightly ran off the track. I also learned how it is really a thing when they say "look where you want to go" because when I looked for the apex cones or exit cones, it was so much smoother as compared to target fixating the outside. There were about 3 occasions where I target fixated the outside of a turn and saw myself nearly running off the track and lowsiding, but luckily I consciously said "NOPE NOT TODAY" and looked where I wanted to go and pushed the handle bar (counter-steer?) and it turned deeper.
Near the end of the day I got a coach to show me the lines (so much smoother when following the correct lines, sets the bike up perfectly for the next turn). When the coach had me lead, it was more difficult to run smoother lines but I slowed down my pace and it got better as I practiced.
Three most important things I learned:
1) Look where you want to go, target fixation is a thing.
2) Fear is your biggest enemy, trust the bike and tires.
3) How to judge speed and race lines.
All in all, had a blast out there. I don't think I took GM's advice when he said take it easy in the morning and go hard at the end because I was so beat up after lunch already lol, maybe next time!
There is always next time.
So did any of you get the need-for-speed bug?
(http://3rdglancemedia.com/ssa/rich.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muZ1wN1CdP8)
Here is an cut down version of the videos taken during the day.
Rich, I'm uploading 4.5gb of the raw video files for you. Once it's done, I'll link it here for you to download and keep because they're awesome :D
(The cracked fairing is from running over a cone!)
Flamecrow - Awesome job on the video. Thanks for being our Tech guy and getting our day on video.
Nice video, looks like a fun day!
Here are 3 links to the full video raw files, the link will expire on May 9th
First video part 1 of 2: https://file.ac/JfWim6f9HGU/ (https://file.ac/JfWim6f9HGU/)
First video part 2 of 2: https://file.ac/0LTU64dDMo4/ (https://file.ac/0LTU64dDMo4/)
Second video:https://file.ac/SCxurCbxWCY/ (https://file.ac/SCxurCbxWCY/)
:clap That was enjoyable to watch. Great job. I'll have to watch it again. It's a great way to pass the time while eating breakfast.
Rich gets in an awesome pass too!
Quote from: GreenMachine on April 29, 2015, 08:45:28 AM
:clap That was enjoyable to watch. Great job. I'll have to watch it again. It's a great way to pass the time while eating breakfast.
Rich gets in an awesome pass too!
I had to include the Dub sighting at the end =)