SSA Sierra Sportbike Association | Reno Nevada Motorcycle Trackday Weekend Riding Club

About The SSA => Trackdays 2018 - SSA & Others - General Chat => Topic started by: Rick Bay (BRA) on July 31, 2009, 09:15:58 PM

Title: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on July 31, 2009, 09:15:58 PM
Aug 16 track day is coming. Iupiii

I would like to know if we can camping Saturday night? So much better when we sleep on the track.

Who else is going?

Also how much I can trusty on 2CT Michelin Tires? Some people said these tires are good for track and others said 2CTs are bad and old. I just bought a set before last track day and I crashed on turn 9A because I acelerated too much I think. Well with different tires it would not heppen? Tks 
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: yzinger on August 01, 2009, 12:48:35 PM
2ct's are an amazing tire, but you will outride them on the track. on the street, nothing better. What I would suggest is going to one of our local shops and using a race "take off" and keeping your 2ct for the street. that way you can have fun on the track, and still preserve those expensive street tires.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: D1NO on August 01, 2009, 07:43:14 PM
+1... Great tires, but you're just getting too fast Rick. ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 01, 2009, 10:37:14 PM
The only problem Jason is the money. I just bought a set of tires and I'm not prepered to spend almost US 500 again I should think about that before because I have already at home another set of 2CTs not good for the the track but in very good conditions for the street.  So you think 2CTs are a good tires to the track, right? Thanks Jason :)

Dino you are my buddy.  :P I'm still larning... ::)
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: cobra23 on August 02, 2009, 02:20:20 AM
Good news for me....

Yup will not be able to make it to this track day because i am picking up an R-6 (older) from buddy Dunnellthenut in Washington that week. He has made me a really good deal on it. Can't wait to get it out there!!

Ahhh a track bike, no more worry about dropping the Ducati!! ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 02, 2009, 07:54:20 AM
right on Cobra...  :)  ;)
But the way "cobra" in Portuguese means "snake" in English.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 02, 2009, 08:11:08 PM
Hey Dale are you going?
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 02, 2009, 08:22:18 PM
I will be in town...but not sure if my bike will be ready or not. I might 'work' it or just come out and hang with peeps.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 03, 2009, 09:36:34 AM
Quote from: Rick Tahoe on August 01, 2009, 10:37:14 PM
The only problem Jason is the money. I just bought a set of tires and I'm not prepered to spend almost US 500 again I should think about that before because I have already at home a set of 2CTs not good for the the track but in very good conditions for the street.  So you think 2CTs are a good tires to the track, right? Thanks Jason :)

Dino you are my buddy.  :P I'm still larning... ::)
Rick, imo, the Pilot Power is a good tire. As long as it's not old in the aspect that it has been sitting in the sun for a significant amount of time, they should be just fine. You just keep working on being smooth and your reference points. Don't worry so much about the tires. It is very common for people to try and make excuses for crashing other than the most likely cause. And that is the rider. I am not saying that you are trying to do that, just making a general statement. I think you had it right at the beginning. Too much throttle coming out of the corner for the amount of lean angle you had. Next time either pick up the bike a bit or don't give it so much throttle. The sooner you take the blame and figure out what you did wrong, the sooner you can fix the problem and prevent it from happening again. 

P.S. take offs are about $100-$150 for a set. If you are interested I have a couple sets.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Dragone on August 03, 2009, 07:10:18 PM
I am shooting for the 16th as well.  Since I did not fall down, the wife said that maybe I can use the extra practice.  lol
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: cobra23 on August 03, 2009, 07:55:41 PM
Quote from: Rick Tahoe on August 02, 2009, 07:54:20 AM
right on Cobra...  :)  ;)
But the way "cobra" in Portuguese means "snake" in English.

I can deal with that  lol.....

Infantry Definition: C Co. 1/161 Hooahhhh!
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 03, 2009, 10:40:35 PM
Hey Andy, thanks for your explanation. Interesting thing the "take offs" tires. But the way, how many track days or laps I can make with a set?  Also how much to put them on? They are kind of slick, used tires or what? Thanks
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 04, 2009, 08:24:40 AM
Quote from: Rick Tahoe on August 03, 2009, 10:40:35 PM
Hey Andy, thanks for your explanation. Interesting thing the "take offs" tires. But the way, how many track days or laps I can make with a set?  Also how much to put them on? They are kind of slick, used tires or what? Thanks

No problem buddy. I can usually get 3 to 4 trackdays on a set of take offs. But it all depends on the pace of the rider who is using them. The harder you ride with them the shorter they will last, just like any tire. I have a tire machine, so I can put them on for free. Just need your wheels. You can probably talk with 2wcp or SPL and I'm sure they will give you a good deal too, since they are closer.

"Take offs" refers to tires that have been raced and then taken off. Most people who race change their tires every race weekend so they have maximum grip at all times. The tires are still good and have a lot of life left just not the maximum grip that some racers need. They usually have about 15 to 30 laps on them total. Some can be slicks, others can be DOT's. Mine are DOT's. I have some Bridgestone BT003's and Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa's. I think I may have a set of Dunlop 209's as well.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: 2wcp on August 04, 2009, 08:37:02 AM
What size are the pirrelis?
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 04, 2009, 10:11:00 AM
120/70 fronts and I have 180 and 190 rears
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 04, 2009, 09:46:27 PM
Deal Andy. I got it. Thanks
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Justin on August 10, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
Cobra is a type of snake.  Picture an Indian playing a flute and having a snake come up from a basket. . . That's a Cobra.
It's common for military divisions to name themselves after the stuff you don't want in your house. 
Still no word on the  "USMC Genital Warts" but it's coming.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 10, 2009, 02:39:49 PM
Just an update for everyone. Doug Polen will be at this trackday for those who are interested in getting some one on one instruction from a former AMA and World Multi-Champion. You can check out his site here. What an opportunity!  8)

http://www.gopolen.com/ (http://www.gopolen.com/)

Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Justin on August 10, 2009, 02:58:45 PM
sounds worthy of a new thread, adig!
very cool
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 10, 2009, 03:02:05 PM
Ask and you shall receive. 
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 10, 2009, 09:46:07 PM
Quote from: Tino on August 10, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
Cobra is a type of snake.  Picture an Indian playing a flute and having a snake come up from a basket. . . That's a Cobra.
It's common for military divisions to name themselves after the stuff you don't want in your house. 
Still no word on the  "USMC Genital Warts" but it's coming.
This kind of snake that an Indian plays a flute is called "serpente" in portuguese. ;D Kind of  SERPENTE NAJA.  ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: A DRAGON on August 10, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
Rick my brotherahhh.  I have to admit I use Michelin 2ct on my aprilia at Laguna Seca. They worked great. I used them because I didn't want to buy a rack tire. I know they have the best traction but for my level I know their just fine.

It's like our conversation at the track. If it's in your head you have to go by that. Race Take offs gave me the confidence to ride my street tires harder. Now I know that my Street tires are fine on the track. I your not turning lap times of 2:45 on Fernley you'll probably be just fine.  A-diggity was wondering the same thing some time ago. He spoke with Zoran and you know what Zoran had to say. " Are you sliding all around on your street tires?" Andy Replied  " No" Then your O K just ride bike"  Wow!!!! Thank you Zoran for the advice.  See you at the track Tahoe Boy
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 11, 2009, 09:42:21 AM
Quote from: A DRAGON on August 10, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
   A-diggity was wondering the same thing some time ago. He spoke with Zoran and you know what Zoran had to say. " Are you sliding all around on your street tires?" Andy Replied  " No" Then your O K just ride bike"  Wow!!!! Thank you Zoran for the advice.  See you at the track Tahoe Boy
True story. And I did learn if you are riding smooth and reaching the limit of your tires, you will start to feel them slide. But that limit can be reached on any tire. So sooner or later you have to learn how to ride the bike while sliding and be comfortable with it.  8)
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 11, 2009, 11:26:48 PM
Right on guys! Thanks a lot for attention with me. I'll see you both at the track...
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: 2wcp on August 12, 2009, 09:26:26 AM
On my 05 GSXR for the Street that I was instructing on and going 2 up, I had the Pirelli Diablo Rosso which is a street tire on it. But it is all about confidence, if putting a track tire on gives you the confidence, then that's the tire you need. 
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: A DRAGON on August 12, 2009, 04:19:18 PM
Word  Steve!!!
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: joebobarn on August 12, 2009, 09:02:32 PM
How do you go about signing up for sunday's track day? I've been meandering around the website for a while now.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: A DRAGON on August 12, 2009, 09:56:25 PM
Joe I see you made it. If their is anything we can do to make your track day more enjoyable, Please let us know. We'll see you at the track. ;)
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 15, 2009, 06:02:23 PM
I see everybody tomorrow at the track!!!  Have everyone good time over there ::) ::)
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 15, 2009, 08:53:02 PM
hey Rick...I'll be there! WOOPEEE!
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 16, 2009, 07:50:27 PM
was nice seeing everyone today! The trackday was well run in my opinion. All the instructors did a great job!

Hope those of you who had mishaps today heal up fast. Seems there was a rash of bad luck in the morning. Justin's speech seemed to help the afternoon go smoother. We just need to add "When you raise your hand to get off the track, do it from the right hand side and DON'T make a hard right across the track to get off of it!"  >:(
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: youngster775 on August 16, 2009, 08:12:33 PM
this message is a thank you to ALL the instructors that were out there sweating your ass off dealing with people like me... I appreciate all the help everyone gave me, It made my day and I cant wait til the next track day! In the morning I was one scared puppy, while staging I thought I heard something knocking in my motor until I realized it was my knees shaking soo bad they were slapping my bike! :-[ but as the sessions went on, I got more and more comfortable and the last run I gave it my best, and even though I was still VERY SLOW, It scared the hell out of me! I LOVED IT!!!! so, If you were one of the many that passed me laughing, I dont give a crap, I had fun! ;D tonight Ill be dreaming about turns 2/3 and 12....
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: tmylynn on August 16, 2009, 08:27:59 PM
I wanted to add my thanks to all of the great people on this site, at bike nights and at the track day today. What a lot of fun. Even though I only did "taste of the track", it was a new experience and great fun. I can't wait until next year when I will have everything I need to get into it totally.

Thanks to everyone for being so friendly, whether you know me or not!
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Dragone on August 16, 2009, 09:54:39 PM
Good to see everyone out their today.  Also good to see the riders meetings.  That helps us all to be prepared, learn the flags and do the appropriate thing.  Was a great day although a one dayer is not my thing.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: JetdocX on August 17, 2009, 09:03:50 AM
First trackday riding the big green Tiger beast.  Thanks to the instructors who offered help.  It did!  Thanks to the faster guys who did not run me over.  What a kick in the ass! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Dandelion on August 17, 2009, 09:15:22 AM
Good times with great friends!    8)  A HUGE thank you to the instructors and others who made this day happen.

Sorry to see Tom and Rick get hurt, heal up guys! 
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Team Gorgonzola on August 17, 2009, 09:38:33 AM
Quote from: youngster775 on August 16, 2009, 08:12:33 PM
this message is a thank you to ALL the instructors that were out there sweating your ass off dealing with people like me... I appreciate all the help everyone gave me, It made my day and I cant wait til the next track day! In the morning I was one scared puppy, while staging I thought I heard something knocking in my motor until I realized it was my knees shaking soo bad they were slapping my bike! :-[ but as the sessions went on, I got more and more comfortable and the last run I gave it my best, and even though I was still VERY SLOW, It scared the hell out of me! I LOVED IT!!!! so, If you were one of the many that passed me laughing, I dont give a crap, I had fun! ;D tonight Ill be dreaming about turns 2/3 and 12....

Your post remind me of my first track day,  :D :D I did not sleep all night before and and was sitting in my car ready to leave at 5:00AM. At the track it was like the first day at a new school; nervous, scared, confused. Fortunately the Dragon was with me and with his help in a few hours I was having the time of my life. Even the fastest guy out there had a first track day, you might be laughing at them before you know it ;D. I am happy you had a great time and thank you for all your help and dedication to the club.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Justin on August 17, 2009, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: youngster775 on August 16, 2009, 08:12:33 PM
but as the sessions went on, I got more and more comfortable and the last run I gave it my best, and even though I was still VERY SLOW, It scared the hell out of me! I LOVED IT!!!! so, If you were one of the many that passed me laughing, I dont give a crap, I had fun! ;D
Yup!
That's the business, right there!
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: dearmash on August 17, 2009, 11:20:34 AM
Racetrack!!!

Super fun, thanks to the instructors, mad kudos.  Justin, Greg, Tom, y'all gave some great info, I'm looking forward to not scraping my pegs from now on!  The video really helps too, very convincing case to pick up a camera of my own to critique myself.  I have the damn thing looping all day at work now to try I come down from the high... 

Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Playa Shark on August 17, 2009, 11:57:39 AM
Wanted to thank everyone, especially Jerome and John, for making my first track a blast and an excellent learning experience.  ;D  Look forward to September and spending a little more time on the track and BSing with everyone.

Thanks Again.

paul
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: com3 on August 17, 2009, 12:31:18 PM
whoo whoo!  great day! thanks everyone!  :D  and pics are not up yet, cause i was too damned tired when i got home at midnight last night, and i only just woke up about 45 mins ago.  hehe. 

they should all be up by tonight though.

thanks everyone!  eric, once again, you're awesome for lettin me use your scoot. 
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 18, 2009, 10:19:51 PM
I had good time last weekend at the track. However I confess I was I little bit scared because I crashed last time that I was at the track. This time I had "take off" tires on my bike I should be more confidence but I was not. Anyway I think It was very good for my first time after I crashed.
8) 8)
Well, also my thanks Jerome and Regina for the event, all instructors for always do the hard work and all others who helped on the event. We can not forget to say thanks for Alan's wife for doing a brave work all day on the hot sun at Reno Fernley Raceway.
8) 8)
Thanks Andy for the day before helped me with my tires.
See you guys again at next SSA track day!!!
Rick
;)
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: A DRAGON on August 19, 2009, 07:31:59 AM
This makes all the work worth it. I know how I felt after my first track days. It just kept getting better and better.

Thanks to all who showed up in support of the SSA. Remember all we're trying to do is make it more fun and affordable for us.

Just a thought..........

As many of you know I'm an avid Racquetball player and Baseball player in my younger years. I've been through 2 knee operations to get my knee scoped. I've know plenty of people who have severed their achilles tendon, Hurt shoulders, broken legs even taken a baseball in the mouth. They all kept playing. Why? Because it was fun. The rush of playing is what lets you know your alive. Yes one can get seriously injured. Sometimes things will happen that will cause you pain. But should you stop? Or be prepared to Quit? Not me. I know most of the risks. Crashing on the track and breaking something is not cool. But doing this on the street. Rick could have been killed. At the track. You couldn't keep the smiles off their faces. They were having the time of their lives. Do everything you can to minimize the risk of getting hurt. And just be careful. Wearing your batting helmet or wearing you eye guards.  We're all doing well. When GOD comes to get us. We're going to say " I had a great time while I was on Earth. Thanks for letting me do that. "

So keep this in mind when you hear about people crashing at the TRACK!!!!!
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 22, 2009, 08:32:50 PM
10-4 Jerome.  You are the men.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 24, 2009, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: Dandelion on August 17, 2009, 09:15:22 AM
Good times with great friends!    8)  A HUGE thank you to the instructors and others who made this day happen.

Sorry to see Tom and Rick get hurt, heal up guys! 

Thanks Dandelion! its always a pleasure to see you!

Sorry if i have been quite guys. i dont like pain pills but have been on them so im kinda ugh  :-\ so lil report from my ER trip.... Concussion, torn/strained neck, bruised heel bone and a golf ball that grew on my elbow (named him jimbo)... bike  >:( Totaled

feeling 10x better

Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 24, 2009, 10:29:32 AM
Sorry to hear about your get off Tom. Glad your feeling better! Thanks for posting and here's to a speedy recovery! Cheers.
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: com3 on August 24, 2009, 10:34:21 AM
Quote from: weavefish on August 24, 2009, 09:37:08 AMbruised heel bone


dr 4theriders TOLD you so. :P   
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 24, 2009, 11:23:38 AM
glad to hear you are relatively OK tom. Heal up quick bro!
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Justin on August 24, 2009, 09:57:41 PM
say hi to jimbo for me.
Nurse Justino was also correct on the heel.

Heal, Heel !
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: Team Gorgonzola on August 26, 2009, 01:10:18 AM




":a golf ball that grew on my elbow (named him jimbo)".



LOL that's the spirit, now Tom, that's worth a beer in my book (or a glass of fine Chianti)
Title: Re: Aug 16 next SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 26, 2009, 12:56:47 PM
Quote from: Team Gorgonzola VP on August 26, 2009, 01:10:18 AM
LOL that's the spirit, now Tom, that's worth a beer in my book (or a glass of fine Chianti)

Hmmm Chianti... Hmmmmm Beer   ;D you gotta see the funny side of life.... keeps a smile on my face ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: A DRAGON on August 26, 2009, 09:00:34 PM
Tom. What hurts me the most about you falling at the track is that your leaving us.

You and Sidney are a great inspiration to the club. I keep looking for you kids to take over in a few more years. 

Sorry about your injuries and your Machine. I wish you a speedy recovery and more traction and no congestion on the track next time. Your great Tom. Let us know if there's anything the club can do to help you out.   (and Jimbo too)
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: JENX!!! on August 26, 2009, 09:08:59 PM
^Dont count us out yet.....washington isnt that far u know. ::)
I HEART SSA!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 26, 2009, 09:38:12 PM
Thanks J.

and in a few more years JENX will be retired.... i have a feeling he will be in the area then lol here or utah lol
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 26, 2009, 09:58:26 PM
wait...WUT! BOTH you guys leaving?  :'(

Do we get a chance to get your crunk before you go?
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 27, 2009, 08:42:55 AM
crunk?
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 27, 2009, 10:14:54 AM
Quote from: weavefish on August 27, 2009, 08:42:55 AM
crunk?

a drink. crunk can be alchol or non
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: com3 on August 27, 2009, 12:07:14 PM
Quote from: n10sive on August 27, 2009, 10:14:54 AM
Quote from: weavefish on August 27, 2009, 08:42:55 AM
crunk?

a drink. crunk can be alchol or non



Gettin crunked means getting drunk
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 27, 2009, 12:47:22 PM
ah! thanks for making me sound old dale  :P ill be around till early oct so get the "crunk" on
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 27, 2009, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: com3 on August 27, 2009, 12:07:14 PM

Gettin crunked means getting drunk

I was trying to be politically correct :)
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: A DRAGON on August 27, 2009, 11:57:52 PM
We'll have to through you 2 a goodbye party. So we can Roast you before you go.

That's a great Idea. A roast!
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Adiggity on August 28, 2009, 09:16:26 AM
When do you guys hit the trail?
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 28, 2009, 11:29:18 PM
i leave in oct.... spmetine after my sisters wedding on the 13th JENX.... i think in FEB... im sure he will confirm.....



oh dale!!!!! I GOT CRUNK TONIGHT!!!!! my friends band was playing so i had to stop bye :)   see im not so old lol
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 29, 2009, 08:49:03 AM
Good man TOM!!! LOL
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 30, 2009, 08:53:23 AM
But what the really reason you guys are leaving?  ???
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: n10sive on August 30, 2009, 09:56:41 AM
They are in the military Rick
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on August 30, 2009, 10:10:37 AM
Quote from: n10sive on August 30, 2009, 09:56:41 AM
They are in the military Rick


Wow Dale! Are they military guys? Jenx has to work hard to get a military shape back... Hehehe  ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: JENX!!! on August 30, 2009, 01:08:00 PM
^^^ ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: weavefish on August 30, 2009, 03:38:22 PM
Quote from: Rick Tahoe on August 30, 2009, 10:10:37 AM
Wow Dale! Are they military guys? Jenx has to work hard to get a military shape back... Hehehe  ;D


JENX is old... take it easy. remember respect your elders  ::)
Title: Re: Aug 16 SSA Track Day
Post by: Rick Bay (BRA) on September 07, 2009, 08:55:01 PM
We were talking about crashes before. Take a look on this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rjMBg798KA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7x-mk4s2gk&NR=1